Talk:B'rel class
Have the D12 and B'rel class been confirmed to be the same anywhere? It makes sense to me but I don’t recall the names being used interchangeable in Generations so there would need to be another source for that claim. -- 8of5 15:48, 14 December 2006 (UTC) :the answer is "no", to my knowledge -- Decipher's Starships text lists them separately. -- Captain MKB 22:07, 1 September 2007 (UTC) :So, the "B'rel" was mentioned in canon in "Rascals", shown as a bird-of-prey. I can't find any sources that say the B'rel and the "d-12" (from canon "Generations") are the same. :Furthermore, "Starship Spotter" lists the length as 88 meters for the B'Rel. Does anyone know of a source for a different length? -- Captain MKB 02:31, 24 August 2009 (UTC) :: The Star Trek: The Next Generation technical manual supports the 327 meter length of the B'rel-class Bird of Prey Cruiser. It is backed up by visual evidence of where a B'rel-class Bird of Prey was effectively half the length of the Enterprise-D, a 641 meter long starship. (Sorry forgot to go into the talk) -- SuperSaiyaMan :I feel that canon "visual evidence" is not valid -- after all, the images we see onscreen are usually pixelated and tough to measure. So I'd say we aren't going to contradict a licensed source based on a DVD or VHS screencap. :Which page of the ST:TNG Technical Manual states a length for the B'rel? -- Captain MKB 02:37, 24 August 2009 (UTC) :: Not sure, the TM isn't on me. I've been going by ditl.org which had its sources back up by three episodes and the technical manual. ::Comments: The B'rel is widely - but incorrectly - claimed to be the class name of the Klingon Bird of Prey first seen in "Star Trek III : The Search For Spock". Most sources - even official ones - claim that the B'rel is in the region of 110 metres long, while there is a K'vort class of the same external appearance but which is significantly larger. ::In fact this is not supported by canon. The name B'rel was first used in the TNG episode "Rascals". The image on the images page is from that episode, and clearly shows the vessels to be in excess of 300 metres in length. The special effects used for this sequence are in fact a re-use of the sequence involving the K'Vort class battlecruisers in "Yesterday's Enterprise", so canonically speaking there is no visible difference between the B'Rel and the K'Vort! '' What Graham said. :I think you are mistaken and the TNG technical manual does not have any lengths for this ship. :and you should really not be working form a third party like the DITL -- get the original sources and then you will actually be able to add data here. :So, Starship Spotter states 88 meters in length for the B'rel. Decipher Starships state 250 meters, as a scout. and the DS9 Technical Manual state 257 meters, again as a scout. :As i said already, the images of the onscreen ships cannot be accurately measured, therefore, trying to "eyeball" their length onscreen is pointless to this discussion -- we are not really concerned with how this makes you 'canonically' feel, its just not relevant at all. :Since we have three conflicting sources, I'm not sure that we should make a snap decision about which one contradicts the others, and we shouldn't delete one source in favor of another. :You see, Saiya, we arent going to delete the info from one valid source to favor another source. Possibly, we'll need to acknowledge both sources as sizes for different types of the same ship. We need to discuss it here before we make changes to the article. -- Captain MKB 02:52, 24 August 2009 (UTC)